Tattoo Artist Leslie Young -- Best Worst Idea Podcast Episode Four!

Frank Hannah: 0:01

Want to be a female tattoo artists that are mostly male dominated profession? Find out why it helps to be born in the Year of the ox. The best worst idea podcast Welcome to the best worst idea podcast. My name is Frank, Hannah and I am your host. This is the podcast where we talk about creativity, how people find it and how it's influenced the course of their lives. Today, my guest is tattoo artist Lesley young. She's been working in the Los Angeles tattoo scene since 2016. And has amassed a pretty substantial body of work when looking at her Instagram account, and it's clear, she's not afraid to take risks. She's not afraid to use bold color choices. But more impressive is the level of trust her clients put in her. I'm so happy she agreed to speak with me. So welcome.

Leslie Young: 1:00

Thank you.

Frank Hannah: 1:01

Hello. What I wanted to talk to you about specifically is the creative side of what you do on one level, it's really kind of easy to say, well, you know, you're an artist, so but there's not all artists want to become tattoo artists or work in the field of tattoos. So what I like to do in this podcast is talk about origin stories. Because I have a lot of comic book people that I've done interviews with that work in the industry. And so I was looking at, like, What's the origin story for Leslie young? And you? Like where you grew up and your parents and like, what kind of upbringing you had?

Leslie Young: 1:40

Well, I had always been drawing. That's like one thing. I think I was like drawing before I was talking actually, like, my dad always bring home like a stack of scratch paper from his work. And I would have like stuff printed on one side, but the other side was like empty or blank. And so like, we'd always me and my sister would always like take from that stack of scratch paper and like draw on it. And that became like a pretty regular thing. Like we would do this every day. So it always

Frank Hannah: 2:10

been drawing. It's crazy that you say that, because my father did the exact same thing. Really. He worked. He would bring home like stacks stacks of like, paper. And and sometimes it would be, which is really cool. It would be like tracing paper or like vellum paper. Anyone? Go ahead?

Leslie Young: 2:27

Yeah. So like we'd always draw. And then me and my sister were really close. So we would always like doodle on each other's papers. And that kind of just became a thing we like, can't we don't really take them any art classes. Like our classes weren't really popular near us, like there just wasn't a lot of programs. But we'd always do it like at home.

Frank Hannah: 2:48

So when you say near us, like where did you grow up? Well, I

Leslie Young: 2:50

grew up in the suburbs. So like, it would make sense that there would be like community centers at that. But it just wasn't like, there wasn't like a huge art community, I guess. Like there was one Art Center where you could go and you would like it was like a camp for kids. And you can like make art and stuff. But it was so like, kind of basic. And yeah, it was more of like a daycare for it was where like, parents would just drop them off. And like you could do or not do the art really?

Frank Hannah: 3:20

And this was an Orange County that were Yeah. What's that saying? If you got to see it to be it sort of thing. Like if you didn't kind of maybe see that art was the Yeah, where you could?

Leslie Young: 3:32

Yeah, I actually had no idea until like, it got towards like, time for us, like high school. And we're like trying to apply for colleges and stuff. And I didn't realize that, like other schools had like AP art studio, or studio art, right. And like classes where they would take it seriously and like do all these things. I had no idea. Because our school just didn't value those things. They put a lot of like money towards like sports and stuff. So that was like the thing. A lot of students who would like use sports to get into college, not that they weren't like, academically

Frank Hannah: 4:06

it that was that was the advantage. But yeah, exactly.

Leslie Young: 4:08

So art was like not a popular way to go about. Yeah,

Frank Hannah: 4:11

the first couple years of high school for me, I spent most of my life in Catholic school. So the first couple years of of high school, it was in a college preparatory school, and not that it was that fancy shmancy or anything, but if you had an elective, it was Spanish or German or something like that. And so the only way you could get to an art class is if you flunked out of your language class. And then they'd say, okay, and now we'll let you take so that's how they valued art. Like they saw it as like, Okay, this is where not dummies go, but they just, it was not something that was in the forefront. It was it was a fallback, which really sucked because I always felt like I was interested in art and being creative and creative thing and creating things but you know, you weren't shown that this is the thing to do. And it was only until I went To the second or last two years of high school, when my family moved, I went to a public high school in Anaheim. And I had some art classes. And it was not that my eyes opened up, but I was so happy that like, you could actually spend the time, you know, doing that. So when you were applying for colleges, did you was art or art design or anything like that part of your thought process? Or was it the family wants you to go into finance or their family wants to go into this or that?

Leslie Young: 5:30

Yeah, so I think my parents were funny, because they were like, only very Surface family supportive of me, they supported me using our as, like an elective to get into college. Like, you know, how, like in college, they they're like, Oh, what have you done? It's like, like community service and like, sports, and like, I worked at this thing. Like they supported that using like it as like a side piece to get in

Frank Hannah: 5:55

or something to, to kind of fill out your resume.

Leslie Young: 5:59

Yeah. And then they only support to that point, though, like they would not they if I wanted to go to an art school, if I wanted to, like specialize in art, or like study art, they'd be like, No, that's not

Frank Hannah: 6:13

well, yeah, cuz it's, as a person who writes or film and TV and comic books. You know, I've done it enough time now, because I'm older that my family and friends, they kind of say, oh, yeah, no, that's like the thing he does. And they know that there's lapses between the jobs like you get a chunk of money, and then you have to try and make that work for X amount of like freelance the right. But it took a while for my family who are working class, blue collar people. They'd say, oh, is your friend in the film business? Or does he work? So it's like your

Leslie Young: 6:52

job? I get that all the time. Yeah, actually, like, clients will come in. They're like, so like, you have another job. Like, they always ask if this is like, my actual, like, job, right? And I'm like, Yeah, it's like my main source of income. Like I do this every day.

Frank Hannah: 7:08

I mean, that's the thing. When when people think about doing what someone like yourself does, in their mind, like, they may say, Oh, I wish I had your life, because they think somehow that you're just living in the lap of luxury, and that you have no responsibility. Yeah, right. And, and it's, it's crazy to me, I, what I hear from people a lot of times is they'll say I want to write, but I just don't have the time. As if time is all that it's required, you know, that just somehow, you don't have to flex those muscles over and over again, yeah, to be confident enough to do the thing you do, like which case would be being able to not only draw, and create and be creative, then you have to, like put that onto somebody permanently. Like there's a there's another element to what you do, which is more than just somebody who is really a great, say graphic designer or illustrator or something like that, like what you're doing is beyond it's like the next level. But oh,

Leslie Young: 8:15

I mean, I think I can see that in some ways. But also in other ways. It almost seems different when you've done it so many times to because I like you get used to it. And then also you really like think about how like short life is to a lot and a painting would last way longer than a tattoo for example. Wow. Which is like crazy, right? Because people are like,

Frank Hannah: 8:38

oh, never. That is the crazy, I've never thought of it.

Leslie Young: 8:43

Like and, of course some paintings go for like 1000s and 1000s, like hundreds of 1000s of dollars. So like it makes sense in that way. But in other ways. It's like sometimes people don't value them as much because it's like, a different aspect. Like, you're going through like a personal like, almost like Well, it's kind of trauma when you get a tattoo. So yeah, it's it's a lot different in that way. So it's just, it's not just like the art itself. But like it's the experience of like getting it.

Frank Hannah: 9:11

There's, there's so much to it. I think that's why it's interesting to me, as I've interviewed comic book artists, people and comic book writers, and it's more than just the art it's that you have to be willing to have somebody trust you enough to put a tattoo on them. And even if you are going and you look at a bunch of tattoo or to say at an expo or a convention, or even in a shop that has a number of different artists, you're looking through their book, or maybe you know somebody that had a tattoo done by a particular artists, but you're really taking that leap of faith with somebody. And I often see whenever you post like some of the art you've done on your Instagram or on your website. You're really thanking the person for trusting that like because it's not necessarily just Something that was picked out of a book or not just some, a flash that like is probably on 100 people's arms or something, you know what I mean? It's something unique. Or it's a shared vision, and that somebody trusted you enough to do that. And I think you have seen that more than once that you actually take the time to say, hey, thank you for trusting me enough to let me do this.

Leslie Young: 10:21

Yeah, I think it's kind of wild. Because like, as someone who gets tattoos too, like, sometimes you don't necessarily get the same amount of attention to like, who you are as, like a person from different artists. And like, it's definitely kind of odd when you go get a tattoo and like, I get it, because as an artist, like, I can see that happening. If you, you know, you've been tattooing for, like, years, and it's just gotten kind of like, not mundane, but like you've done it so many times. But yeah, some, like some artists, you can really tell when they're paying attention to you. And like listening to you, and like reading your email, for example. And like, trying to do their best for you as a person and do a good job with the tattoo itself. Versus like, Oh, this is just a tattoo. I'm just like, gonna just do this, because I've had that from different artists too. And it's, it's like a, it's like weird.

Frank Hannah: 11:21

Well, yeah, me. I mean, and I think I talked to you about this, whenever I got my tattoo from you, which was, what I realized was just from over the years, is that you really want your tattoo artists to be somehow invested in a piece of work they're doing right, as opposed to just put this on me. So and I tell people this too, that say, you know, because they asked, they see your tattoos and they were they want to know about them? Or who did them or they're thinking, oh, I want to get a tattoo. What should I do? And I've said, Listen, if you have an idea, if there's something specific you want, that can't really be changed? Well, that's one thing. But if you have, let's say, if it's a character, and say, Okay, well, rather than just say, here's a picture of that character, put it on me, you might say, this is what I'm the character I want. What do you think like, this is the kind of things I'm interested in? Can you do a version of that? Yeah. Then I've often found too, that not only do you get a better tattoo, you may even get a more detailed tattoo than somebody who just says, No, this is what I want. That's it.

Leslie Young: 12:28

Yeah. Um, I think it's funny, because I think I'm still relatively young in terms of like, my tattoo experience. So I do, like, hesitate a little bit. When, when someone like does send me like, just an image. And they don't really specify like, oh, you can do you know, this is kind of what I want. But like, I want you to do go to town. Yeah. But it really, like encourages me when they do say that, because then I'm like, okay, like, I have the confidence to like, fully do what I want to do. But like, still adhere to like, their requirements or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, sometimes I get just like a reference picture. And I'm also just like, a little, like, Hey, is it okay? Like, and I like, just do this in my own stuff. Like, I'm still a little bit shy about it. Because I did spend like, the beginning of my two years, just doing what people wanted, because I didn't know exactly what style I wanted to do just yet. And so I just do exactly like, they want this, like manga panel, I'll do exactly that. You want this? I'll be like, Okay, I'll just do that. And I was just trying to figure out like, what's good at the time, too.

Frank Hannah: 13:34

Yeah, because it adds so much like pressure, like if I did some piece of graphic art for somebody in Photoshop, or illustrator or something, and I send it to them, and they say, This is shit, and you fix it, then you go, okay, and then you go back and you fix it.

Leslie Young: 13:49

I'll be like, I'll do whatever I want at that point, if that's not what you want, and but but

Frank Hannah: 13:53

if you tattoo it, it's too late. Right? Yeah. So it's one of those things where there's more to it than just the image itself, because people have an idealized version of what they think it's going to be. Yeah. And they say, oh, so what's your tattoo gonna be in? This is before I got the tattoo. We go right on. And I said, Well, I don't know. But I gave the tattoo artist, a bunch of reference. Yeah. Well, what did she come up with? I'm like, I don't know. What when you're going to find out and I'm like, well, well, when I go, yeah. And they're like, well, that's crazy. And I go, Well, no, not I mean, here's the thing. It's not like, you're gonna say this is it, buddy? And that's, you know, that's no choice. But in a way it's, it's like I was trusting you, I could see that you have artistic abilities, and that you do a wide range of things. So to me, it's like, I wanted to kind of be surprised to see what what it was. And, of course, you didn't do something outlandish because you saw what the Yeah, you saw, you know, it might not even have been what you really want it to do, but it was like okay, well, this is kind of in the vein of what he wants, so that you're able to do that. And that's kind of the thing. That's why I'm really fascinated by what tattoo artists do. And what makes you an exciting person to talk to is that like, you don't fit the bill for what like you expect to see as a tattoo artist, you know, you expect to see some fully tattooed face tattoo just looks like 1000 miles of dirt road just like they've been through it. And that's just not you. You're actually so unassuming and just this year. Yeah, so

Leslie Young: 15:31

funny, because I do think that I fall like, because of like how I grew into tattooing. I feel like I stand right now in a weird intersection between like, what has happened in the last two years specifically. And then also like tattooing, in general, because I basically, like grew up in a tattoo shop, or like my first experiences in tattooing, were in a shop in Venice. And like, I learned a lot of tattooing from them specifically. But I think a lot of tattooing from the last few years, I would call like COVID, tattooing has been like private studios, like private everything. And the experiences are a lot different for each one. Because right now I'm in a private studio, I do really miss like a shop environment. But so the this, like the demographic has shifted a lot because of like, who's now tattooing. So many of these new private shops have, like popped up in LA specifically, I feel really like, oh, I have like friends in this space. But I also have friends in this space. And like they have very different ideas about tattooing in general that, yeah, I'm just here, corner.

Frank Hannah: 16:49

Keys, I think what you're kind of also saying is that, you know, there's, if you would continue to work in a shop and you work your way up, whatever that hierarchy is, just, it's still learning from people, right? You're still learning from different artists, at any entity level of, of talent, right? They're, they're showing you things that they do. And that's one of things I was thinking about, before talking to you was, like years ago, before Instagram and social media and all of that. If you wanted to know, what was thought to be a good tattoo style, or what was hip tattoo style to get out of that the what's the thing? Well, you that you had to go into a tattoo parlor, which was a little intimidating for a lot of people. And it was a time saying the 80s and early 90s, where women weren't really getting tattooed as much where you could see it, right, they might have tattoos, but it would be on a shoulder or with somebody somewhere where it wasn't visible. And so for, say your average college girl, they might not want to go into like a tattoo shop, which was male dominated, as well in terms of the type of artists and now it's a completely different world. Because if, if even someone like myself, if I wanted to see what cool tattoos were out there, I might pick up like tattoo magazine or one of the few magazines. But now that it's almost passe that they had these magazines because vintage, right? And so you'd see that and it was interesting and cool. But what's happening now, with tattoo art is so different. If you're just living in a kind of bubble of just what other tattoo artists are doing, if you're trying to do something outside of that, your main people that are going to tell you yes or no or other tattoo artists, right. And there's like the idea of what you should do. And they might say, I don't like that, or that's, that's not good, like, but you see the type of stuff that's getting tattooed onto people and the styles of things that are getting tattooed. Like I saw an Instagram video of somebody who just does nothing but like food tattoos on people. It's

Leslie Young: 19:05

yeah, it's really funny because this is kind of like what I'm saying too, with like this new wave of tattooing that's coming along. And there's like trends like I like everything. There's trends, and like tattoos, but there's some people that will only do like this, like spiky I think it's kind of like a running joke amongst like other tattooers but it's like this spiky fairy goth, wide 2k style that's like come on, but it's kind of like it's not necessarily like tribal, but it has like certain elements that like borrow from those designs, but it's I wish I could just show you right now. That's not gonna help you helpful for the podcast.

Frank Hannah: 19:49

No, probably not.

Leslie Young: 19:50

But I'm trying to say that this this like funny trend is coming along. And it's getting a lot of like yes or no from different tattooers based on like I'm talking to the big Oh, that's so cool like you and like, wow, you know, good for them. And then I also hear a lot of like, oh my God, that's insane. Like, why would you do that? Or like, that's horrible?

Frank Hannah: 20:10

You absolutely. And as if you're just looking at tattoos for ideas as a guy who likes tattoos, like, I'll look on Instagram, and I'll see somebody who's doing something that is so completely outside of what anyone else is doing. And it looks awesome. Now, whether or not you want to get that as a tattoo or not, I don't know. It's everyone's different. Yeah. But it's so cool. And then you look at it, like, oh, that person's in Austria, or that person's like on the Spain, Canada, absolutely. Other side of the world. But I love it because it allows there to be this level playing field of what's possible, right? It's not just an idea. Look, this person does this. And I talked about I put down some, some trends too, because I wanted to kind of ask you about them. And of course, would you describe your style as kind of Neo traditional?

Leslie Young: 21:04

I'm not necessarily because I think when I think of Neo traditional, I think of like a like a lot of dramatic directness Magnus. I don't know how to describe kind of like, you know, Alphonse mukha, like that. Yeah, like, tattoo ified. And like more focused on like, maybe like just the head of a woman or like, just like certain detail that's super dramatic, a lot of like, really continuous gradients of color. And then like a lot of like embellishing with like, whether it's abstract with like, just like smoke or something, or if it's just like flowers on the side, or just to make the whatever focus of it. look way more. Right. Yeah.

Frank Hannah: 21:47

You know, your art reminds me of a night. I'm not sure if you know, the artists, but there's an artist. Her name is Joe Cooper. You know, Joe Cooper.

Leslie Young: 21:55

Yeah, I think I used to follow them.

Frank Hannah: 21:58

And yes, she's amazing. Yeah. And it's not an exact but I think there's elements of it where I see that and as that same gives me that same feeling. And she's great. I, you know, I own a couple of small pieces of hers. But now she does almost strictly animals. She used to do beautiful women and almost kind of berry type stuff. But now it's like, specifically it seemed I think she's a big nature person. I think she loves got nature. And so yeah, a lot of the stuff she does now tends to be animals. But it's so cool. I mean, I don't know, I hope you take that as a compliment. Because Thank you, because I really, I really do think she's, she's awesome. But so, you know, I was thinking about, like some of the stuff that I see on line that I just wonder what you think of like, okay, there's Have you heard of this? Trash, polka tattooing? Or trash? Tattoos? Like ignorance style? I don't know if that's another way to put it. But it's, it's pretty much like, whatever. Yeah, it has a definite style to it. It doesn't just seem like random. But it's crazy, you know, just just curious, because it's artistic, but it's almost abstract, and the people that do it, or that, that habit. It's large pieces that extend all over the body. And and it's jarring. It's not necessarily like, Oh, that's amazing. You see it and it's making a statement. Yeah. And, and so, I don't know that that ever took off. Because I see some people have it, but it's not something I see a lot of,

Leslie Young: 23:38

I think this style, like, every time I see stuff like that, where it's more abstract, it's like not your typical, quote unquote, typical tattoo. It's not really like trying to portray specific, like, subject matter. It's just like designs and like imagery on someone. I think it's really, like, really amazing. And in two ways, like one, it's, it's amazing, because it's like, that's amazing. And it looks cool. The second one is that it's amazing because you really need a lot of negative space to for a lot of these designs, like rely a lot on having completely empty space for that designed to look at on its own right.

Frank Hannah: 24:21

Yeah, cuz it doesn't loose as near as I can tell. You couldn't like have a bunch of more traditional looking tattoos and then have that around. It's just not

Leslie Young: 24:30

exactly so the thing about those is that you need all this empty space and then you can't get like other stuff next to it because then they'll just mess up like what you have gotten screwed up. Yeah, so that to me is amazing, too. Because they're willing to just be like I'm not gonna get or I don't know, of course they can still go get more tattoos but

Frank Hannah: 24:49

like they for It's usually more of the same stuff, though. Like leave it

Leslie Young: 24:53

like to keep it in that way or like to keep that imagery going. I think that's cool.

Frank Hannah: 24:59

Yeah. I'm just going back a little bit like so when you were before you were any kind of artists route, let alone tattoo artist? What was not counting what maybe your parents might have thought was the direction for you? What was the thing? What was the dream job? What was the thing you wanted to do? And maybe it's tattooing? I don't know, I'm just

Leslie Young: 25:22

Oh, um, I mean, honestly, I didn't really know. But I really liked the idea of going into animation or illustration or something like that, which I have a couple of clients that do work in that kind of thing, or like concept design, and I think they're so cool. And it's crazy that they can get work done by me. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like you're working a job that like I might have wanted to do when I was younger.

Frank Hannah: 25:47

But couldn't you still do it? You're still young? Yeah,

Leslie Young: 25:50

I think that I do have to learn I have to go to school for it. Because they use different equipment that I I mean, maybe maybe I could self teach. But I would really need to work on like certain projects that I think that need to be of industry, like up to par with industry. And I think that there's some pretty cool schools out there that do offer programs like that. Oh, yeah. But I think a lot of them are like, not in person. And I don't like.

Frank Hannah: 26:17

You mean, it's like over like the internet? Or? No, I think you really do need, especially with art. Yeah,

Leslie Young: 26:23

I'm like, I can't like I don't know, like it can't focus. So when I'm on Zoom, like, what's going on?

Frank Hannah: 26:31

Well, I think it's like you need, I was talking to one of the friends of mine who owns the Kubert School of comic comics, and design and animation and all that. And we were kind of talking about, because they had to do a lot of zoom stuff, because they're in New York City, or they're in New Jersey. And I was like, you know, like, I like going on to YouTube, for example. And somebody will say, well, here's how you draw a head and a cartoony way, or here's how you draw this or that. That's fine. And you can do it. Yeah. But what you really need is somebody that like a teacher or somebody goes, Oh, no, no, no. Let me show you my trick. This is how I do it. Like, this is how I conceptualize and maybe you don't say it that way. But they're showing you things that help you to jump. miles ahead. Yeah. And if you don't have that,

Leslie Young: 27:22

it's like you're Yep, you got it. Well, you'll eventually learn it yourself. Like if you do it enough times. Oh, this is actually really funny. Because so yeah, I said that in high school, I like didn't know about schools having like our programs and stuff. So I only found out because my, my mom found this program in Irvine, which is like a city away from where we lived that hat it was basically like a college prep program for people who wanted to do an art school. And so they would help these students like, create portfolios that they could submit to the school as part of the application. And when I went there, that's when I met like a bunch of other students that were like we are on our, on our way to RISD, or, like, we're on our way to Art Center, like, this is like what we want. And it was pretty intense. Like, that seemed pretty high pressure, like these students were like, not there to like, mess around. It was just like, okay, here to like, grind. Yeah,

Frank Hannah: 28:19

we're here to suck all the joy out of drawing. And

Leslie Young: 28:23

I was really intimidated because like, I had come out from like, a different, like, no one entered school was like this, I was like, oh my god, like, I'm so behind, like, I have to, but I mean, I only went there to like, check it out. And like, take, like, I took one life drawing class. But the, the instructors there were kind of like that they like new industry stuff. And they had worked in the industry. And they like, whenever they would come around and help you they, you know, here's, here's my quick and dirty way of doing whatever, whatever, or like you, like really do this. And then it was cool. Like I really admired a lot of this teachers because they just like went through all this stuff. And then we're like, hey, and they were really nice, too. So that was kind of cool. It's it's

Frank Hannah: 29:03

definitely encouraging, I think, if you spend a lot of time around other creative people, and you know, there's like this Buddhist kind of thing about don't be too stingy with the Dharma, you know, like, if you've got the knowledge, like, share it don't keep

Leslie Young: 29:19

teachers like never share everything that the next generation so like, knowledge gets.

Frank Hannah: 29:25

Yeah, they're like, No, I'm not Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to do so. When people do it's, it's helpful. So yeah, so you want it to get into animation. Like what kind of animation like what were you watching? That was like, this is really kick ass.

Leslie Young: 29:38

Um, I like like animated movies. animated movies. Yeah, but honestly, I didn't really know how or like what was going on or like what I needed to do to get there and I didn't really I wasn't in a space where I could like do a lot of research ready either mentally speaking. So I didn't really perceive that

Frank Hannah: 29:57

interesting. I did you know There's the idea of what you think you want to do. And it's sometimes pie in the sky or like, it's like, oh, it's a dream. It's never gonna happen. Yeah. But anything is possible in this world. Yeah. And I don't mean that in some kind of Pollyanna way. I really do believe now that people can do

Leslie Young: 30:17

it. Yeah, I think if you like want, really, really want to do something, you're gonna make it happen. Like no matter what, like,

Frank Hannah: 30:23

No, I do. Absolutely. And I think there's something to be said for not being another drone in the art school world or in say, my case, being in film, film and TV, not going to film school where they turn out, basically just carbon copies of the same thing, and that you need to live and have your own experiences and your style grows that way. Like, for me, I was working in my 20s at a corporate job I didn't really particularly care for, but they would pay for school. Like, if you're going to go for a business degree, they would, they would pay for it. Right? And I just didn't want to do that. Because I really, it wasn't my calling. It wasn't what I really wanted to do. Yeah, but at the end of the day, another big part of it was, okay, I'm working 40 hours a week. Yeah, at a job, I can't fucking stand. And then I'm going to go to school at night. And like, what am I going to have enough living to write about? So I so I didn't end up going to school for that. And I ended up spending a lot of time going to Vegas, for example, like with friends and stuff. And I never had two cents, but I would go and I would win money and I would lose it. And at one point, I remember I was in a casino. And I would get really drunk too, because you know, you're young 21 It's Vegas, you know, but I was a belligerent drunk. So that's one of the reasons why I don't drink now, because I was just belligerent not mean, but just out of control. Here it is chaotic. And I remember, I was at a blackjack table, and I was just being drunken, an idiot. And the pit boss came over to me, and he says, if you don't shut the fuck up, I'm gonna bounce you out of here. And of course, I started apologizing because I wasn't being spared. I was like, Ah, sorry. Yeah, like the worst, the worst, total worst? Because I'm thinking, Oh, no, I'm really sorry. And he's like, listen, while you've been sitting here, you have won and lost $7,000. For real? Yeah. And I'm like, oh, and that sobered me up a bit at the time. And what I remember about that. I mean, I had I had made money, but and back then I would make more money than I do now. Because you're just crazy when you're when you're had a few, because you just you don't have the inhibitions that would stop you from saying, I'm going to put all this money, or I'm going to bet all this money, you're more. Okay. But the point is, I spent all that time in casinos, on weekends with friends. And I got to see what that world was. And so that's what inspired me to write the first movie that I ever had made, which was called the cooler. And it was about a guy who was unlucky, so unlucky, he had infectious bad luck. And that is only born out of the fact that I just spent time around these interesting characters. And that life lesson was around, had I gone to school. I mean, I just wouldn't have had

Leslie Young: 33:30

that so jaded to about everything.

Frank Hannah: 33:34

Yeah, so I think, you know, there's, like I said, somebody can be set for kind of, you know, yeah, I mean, going your own way, and really just being you, so that you're not, because one thing's for sure. It's like, if someone looks at your tattoos, they're not going to say, Oh, she's like, there's like 50 other 100,000, other Lesley Young's out there, I can go and get something like this room. It's like, you have an original English style, don't you think? I mean, there's enough traditional about it that you say, Okay, it's not so out there that it's, you know, and that may change, right, like 10 years from now you may have a have adapted into something completely different. That's true. Yeah.

Leslie Young: 34:17

I mean, I don't it's funny because a lot of apprentices like their mentors will have them start off with American traditional, because it teaches you all like the basic stuff, but that wasn't the case for me. And so eventually, had I gone through like different, you know, different styles. And then it was like me being like, why haven't I done any American traditional yet? Like, what is up with this? And then I tried to check it out a little bit and draw on that style and like I would coffee like Sailor Jerry or, you know, stuff, and then I was like, oh, that's actually really neat, like, very flexible in terms of,

Frank Hannah: 34:57

but yeah, but you wouldn't know that from just looking at it. Right, right. Only through the process of doing it right. I think that's, that's awesome. So when you are thinking about your art career, maybe you aren't even thinking about your art or you're just thinking, what am I going to do? Right? You're not maybe the as put together about it

Leslie Young: 35:15

in your head, like what's gonna happen next month, right?

Frank Hannah: 35:18

So how do you come to? Like, do you get a job working in a tattoo shop with the idea that you're going to tattoo or where you're like, hey, it's an artistic place. It's got a lot of creativity. I'm gonna go there and see what's up.

Leslie Young: 35:33

Like for me specifically, or anybody for you? All I really wanted to tattoo once I figured, like, once I found out what tattooing was, and I was like, well, we'll do this like what? I really wanted to do it, but I had no friends that had tattoos and our friends that tattooed and no one in my family has had to like I had no leads, like not a single one. That's what's weird to me. It's not like it wasn't like I had a friend cuz you know, everyone who's like, oh, well, my friend had to so I you know, it's always like that literally is just nepotism in a bad way. But like, it's like your friend got you into something like, Oh, my room. But so I did a lot of like, it was really scary. Because I didn't know anything. And I don't think that shop really wanted to apprentice. Anybody to be honest. I think they just wanted extra hands. Which is like, fine, because I learned so much while I was there, even though I wasn't apprenticing.

Frank Hannah: 36:32

Well, yeah, because you who goes to work at a tattoo shop without an interest in tattooing? Yeah, some people. But um, I mean, maybe because it's like a cool place. Yeah, it's a cool place to hang out. But, you know, that's not a long term solution.

Leslie Young: 36:48

I mean, yeah, I mean, I definitely wanted to tattoo it was clear to me. I just didn't know like, what was going on. I didn't, I didn't know any of the etiquette, or I didn't know the traditions, how the whole I know, the traditions. And I didn't know I just like kept going though. I just kept like, going to work learning different things every day. Like no matter what was going on, who's even if it was a slow day, I was like,

Frank Hannah: 37:12

so. So really, what you're saying is, you just kind of I don't wanna say you just wandered into it. Because it sounds like you, you had

Leslie Young: 37:20

no level I tried really hard to like, even like, not necessarily in furniture, but like, even just work at our shop. Like was kind of stressful and hard. Because all obviously didn't No one's like, we need Yeah, like,

Frank Hannah: 37:37

they're not real friendly to people that right? Like that's,

Leslie Young: 37:40

I think the only place like I don't even know how they would like push, like, it's not like yellow pages where you're like, we need like shop help or whatever, where you can, like, I just like contacted all of the tattoo shops that were within my vicinity, not knowing like, what they did, or like who they were or anything. I just really wanted to be in the scene and be like, with these creative people, because I knew that they knew things that I could at least watch.

Frank Hannah: 38:07

Did somebody take you under their wing in a way that say, Hey, let me Are you interested? Because if you hang around long enough, they're gonna know that you're not just somebody who's going to be there for a couple of months and then leave, right?

Leslie Young: 38:22

Yeah, it's kind of a tricky situation. And yes, someone did take me under their wing, and I'm super grateful for them, because they basically gave you good advice in my life. We don't really talk anymore. But it's I still like, admire this person from afar. But yeah, um, so the shop doesn't really do a good job of like teaching that shop in particular. I mean, I know there's lots of shops that do this, they'll just kind of like have you around. Or like they tell you your apprenticing, but they don't really teach you anything, but I did learn as like someone who is good at like, watching and like, okay, they're doing that thing, like write it down, or like remember that or whatever. So that's how I learned what just kind of worked out for me. Because understand that other people might need someone to tell tell them or they might need like, different Do people just learn differently, right? But I think for someone like me, I was pretty happy with like, just like stealing information, whatever you like getting someone up and like learning what their setup was. Or like breaking someone down being like, oh, like, why are they using this?

Frank Hannah: 39:30

See, that's a highly motivated way to look at it. Right? Because you're thinking if somebody's not offering the information, I want to and I wasn't a way to get

Leslie Young: 39:41

it. Right. And I wasn't even sure if I was allowed to like ask questions, because you know, sometimes, like it just didn't I didn't seem I didn't feel like Welcome at all, to be honest. In the space. Well, there was a lot of like, older dudes that I wouldn't even talk to them because I was so scared of like, what they were Say, I knew one of them didn't like they were probably scared of you. Well, one of them didn't like me at all, because so I was working for the shop at the moment. And I would like, I would basically like pay to help pay out the shop, pay out the artists at the end of the day. And since I was like really good at math, I could like do the calculations pretty easy. And like I would, I would just double check with them, hey, you got this. And it was just pretty simple stuff for me. But one of the artists was like arguing with me about like, what the number they got. And I was like, No, it's this. And they were like, No, it's this. And I was like, we got into it. And I was like, dude, like, I'm just explaining to you like basic math is math.

Frank Hannah: 40:35

I'm not like this. Nothing is facts like

Leslie Young: 40:37

this is it. From then on, it was like, it was like a weird tension. But aside from that, it didn't help. This doesn't help. But I really like idolize them too, because I'm like, oh my god, I do this with a lot of tattooers that I made to my God, they're so good. Like, I'm just, I'm like too shy to tell them that like I draw or like I tend to or whatever to. And that plus just being nervous around people was like, not a good combination to be like, oh, like, so I noticed that you were using this? Like, why are you Why do you do that? Or like, how did you get started or something like that. So I had to resort to just doing like my thing of just being observant and just watching and seeing, watching and then copying and seeing what.

Frank Hannah: 41:19

And so the reason why I'm kind of going down this road is because one of the things that I talk to people about in these interviews is, is creativity and the idea that you're not a creative person, because you had one great idea one day, at the top off the top of your head. You're creative, because the first 1000 ideas may have not been quite there. But you went to the 1000. And first idea, right? Or you kept on going. Yeah, and so it's a no one talks about. And that's one of the things when I say when people kind of underestimate what it takes to do something artistic, they don't understand that the creative process is

Leslie Young: 42:00

stupid, like, it's, you're insane,

Frank Hannah: 42:03

you're insane. And that it is something that is the difference between a creative person and a non creative person, at least in their minds is that they just stop. They stop, you know, they might say, Oh, I tried to think of something, but my two ideas and they suck. So I just stopped. I'm like, well, that's, that's why it's just my theory is creativity is problem solving. And if anybody in the world, if you've ever solved the problem, you're being creative. So that's the kind of thrust of this whole podcast. But the idea is different. What I'm hearing from you is, you have seen a lot of what would be conceived by others as barriers as a closed group of people that aren't necessarily interested and revealing their secrets to you. And you're like, well, I'll just keep going. And so why didn't you because you because from what you're saying to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are shy?

Leslie Young: 43:03

Yeah, first of all shy, and then also there. It's just like, I'm glad that I didn't just like barely, like, you know, elbow my way through and just be like, what's this? Because like, yes, while that may have sped up my learning process a lot. And I think a lot of people do that. I also think that's incredibly rude sometimes, like, I'm like, they're just doing their job. Like they don't need someone to be at them all the time. So being conscious of that, I was like, oh my god, like, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be like that annoying shop health girl who was just like, What do you? What are you doing that? Yeah, like, That's

Frank Hannah: 43:41

so rude. Well, you kind of erred on the side of caution, right, but

Leslie Young: 43:45

but a little bit too much. I think like, I think it would be totally okay, if I was like, you know, here and there being like, what's this? And I think that because I wasn't asking those questions. People might be like, Oh my God, she's not even interested in learning. Do not ask me any questions. When in reality, I'm just,

Frank Hannah: 44:01

you're just dying to ask a question, but you just haven't. Yeah, so it's

Leslie Young: 44:04

really difficult to like, surpass that barrier? Or be like, is it okay for me to ask or like, is it okay for me to like, do the thing with all these like social things in mind, which I think is really interesting, because my next point is that the mentor that had taken me under his wing is Japanese, and he learned in Japan, all those social rules are super relevant, especially in a traditional Japanese, like, mentorship, you don't even ask questions allowed to so it's like, well, I could as like, you know, someone in America and like, whatever. I still was like,

Frank Hannah: 44:41

you're kind of honoring the kind of and like,

Leslie Young: 44:43

the way I was raised to like, Confucianism and like, you respect your elders, you know, like, be a disturbance for your elders. So it's like, all those things coming together and way and the way that I got into tattooing while it was drawn out, it's incredibly painful. Because of those things, yeah. It's kind of living about it. Now I'm like, wow, that was stupid. Well, because

Frank Hannah: 45:08

we never, you know, maybe our own self concept isn't the same as what other people see, like me, I see you as like this kind of rock star. Right? And you may say, I don't know if I believe that, because you're just you. Yeah, but, but other people have, they see you as this, this thing. And maybe that's not fair. Because you live your own life and you, but we, we tend to admire the people that one go after something that they really want. And two are really good at it. And three, are humble, like, humility is a huge thing for me, like, I hate cocky people. Totally hate, like, it just makes me sick. Because people can have a massive amount of skills. And that's great. But then they're blessed in that way. And they may have worked really super hard for it, which totally I get, just, you know, just an ounce of humility kind of goes a long way for me. And I do feel like you're, you're not you're fairly unassuming as a person. And I'm not just kissing your ass. I'm just trying to say that you kind of have kind of gone through a little journey to get to where you're at now, right? But you didn't step on anybody's head to do it. You were kind of one minded about like, Okay, well, this is what I want, this is what I'm going to do. And I think that's important for other people to hear. Because people feel like, they don't know what their options are. But there's a couple things like my generation is like the low self esteem generation, right? Where, like, our parents are the ones that are like, children should be seen and not heard. And you're not supposed to have feelings and right. And so we feel like we're not good enough. So therefore we find something that we think we want to do, so that we will end up proving to ourselves and to whoever it is, are the voice of our father or mother, brothers or who our family that were good enough, right? And that's fine. So for me, that's why I wanted to become a writer, my dad was a big movie fan. So I thought, well, I become a movie writer, then then I'll be good enough. Well, the thing is, you're good enough anyway. But but you don't know that at the time. And when that all kind of came to fruition. Something really amazing happened. It was also kind of tragic in a way, which was that none of it delivers on the promise, like whatever in your mind, you think it's going to solve by gaining the success in the field, you want to work in its own reward and has, it's a huge accomplishment. And there's lots of pluses and minuses to that. But that has nothing to do with all your childhood shit. And you're like, that is not going to get solved at least directly. Right? So that was one of those things for me is that that came from much more my point, low self esteem and going okay, I will be good enough later generations. And we kind of know people like this where they have way too much self esteem. But they don't have the neither the talent nor the abilities. But they but they think that they're the greatest thing ever. Yeah. And that's a strange thing. And that's, that's not everybody, but I'm saying this is something you see, it didn't used to be that way. It used to be somebody who is really down on themselves. They don't feel like they're good enough. And then now you have people who think they're good enough, but they they haven't done any of the work to, because they've learned all their entire life. That is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Leslie Young: 48:41

Yeah, I mean, I really, I don't I mean, sometimes I meet people like that, but it just like, doesn't make sense to me. Because, like, what, like, What are you even doing? Or like, what are you doing? Right? But I think that also like social media plays like a big part of this, because a lot of people are super big on social. And I think that like I can imagine it being like a huge confidence boost being like, Oh, I like have these many people like saying that I'm amazing. I don't know, I think that I do a lot of internal work. When I'm working, trying to be creative or trying to do my work. It's always just me, talking to myself. And like, no matter what someone is saying, even if they're like, I love this, it's like still my own word that like what worries me the most essentially,

Frank Hannah: 49:24

like, what I try and tell people too, is that the barrier to creativity for a lot of people is the self critic that says, Oh, you suck. Right, or That's lame.

Leslie Young: 49:33

Yeah. I mean, it's not necessarily a very because it's the same person that's making me do more like continue to keep

Frank Hannah: 49:39

pushing. Well, that's true. But, but the difference is, you don't necessarily listen to it, right? Because some people hear that and stop. You hear it and go, Okay, I can always be better, right? And so then you know, as long as it's not perfection, because you'll never reach it so much Question to you then would be like, what keeps you going whenever you feel like you've reached the end of your rope in terms of creativity, or something, some creative project? Because at some point, like, how do you talk yourself into? Yeah,

Leslie Young: 50:15

cuz, okay, this is funny because I'm year of the ox. And growing up my parents like made fun of me for it because I was born. Yeah, you're, you're the OGs. And then in September when school starts, then also like four or 5am in the morning, and to them, it's like, really funny, because that's like, what a really hard worker does gets up really early in the morning, right at the beginning of the school year, like when things are starting near the office is like super hard work hard working, and will symbol and like the Chinese zodiac. And so they're like, lovely, you're like Doom to like a word of life full of work, labor. And I was like, okay, but like, it didn't, obviously, doesn't matter. It's just like, you know, I

Frank Hannah: 50:59

think you've you may have picked on something that is important, which is that you do work all the time. But you do what you love. So it's kind of like, it's a little easier to

Leslie Young: 51:12

well, this is funny, because even if I wanted to say, oh my god, I'm Brain Juice is emptied. I am not creative at all. I'm done. Like, I've, I've messed up this flash sheet. I can't finish it. I just feel like so I did feel this actually, really recently because I'm doing another flash batch for this month. But I was like, ah, like, I hate myself right now. This sucks. So I put it away. And I was like, I should just quit like, you know, just like in my mind, like, I'm so bad. I have nothing left, empty. This is I've peaked like it's just down. But then literally, like I woke up, like the next morning and I was like, oh, you know what, let me go back. So I can't even help it. If I like felt that way. It's just like, I'm stubborn. And I will go back and try to finish it. Even if it's like, no, this is a lost cause. Give me like two hours. Like, I'll be back on it. Like it's just

Frank Hannah: 52:13

see. And I'm not saying that other people can be like that. Because I think people can train themselves to say, Okay, I'm gonna give this another go. But it's that's the difference between somebody who can be successful in their own way. And somebody who just says, the hell with it, because there's nothing wrong with saying, I have nothing left to give. I'm over, I'm done.

Leslie Young: 52:41

I think I'm just like, really stubborn and like stupid to because this will show and like other things if I'm doing something wrong. But I think if I just keep doing it, like something will change, like, I'll just keep doing it. And that's also really like an ox, bullish type behaviors, like you're ramming into, like a wall like, this is the end. That's it? Like no, no, I'm gonna keep.

Frank Hannah: 53:04

So yeah, so maybe it makes sense that you're, you're the octopus you are.

Leslie Young: 53:09

I'm not like thinking either really necessarily. Like, I guess like the logical side of my brain. I'm just just

Frank Hannah: 53:16

going for it. This is the message people need to hear in life, whether it's from you from me or from anyone else is that because what will happen is I'll work on a script, you know, that could take me months. Yeah. And then it goes out into the town. And it'll be it could be dead within 72 hours. Friday, sometimes this is great. But then by the time Sunday rolls around, it's dead. And that is such a bummer. Because you put all of this time and effort into it. And what I tell people what I do is, and it's a weird conscious choice I make is I say, I give myself one day to be really bummed about it. Okay, I Yeah, then I'll have my little pity party for one day. And then the day after that, I just get on with it. Yeah, because it, I get it. It's disappointing, but like, what am I going to do? I have to keep going.

Leslie Young: 54:13

Yeah, I think that's really relevant, or tend to stuff that like, I want to do like personal projects. Like, I don't know if you know, but I like sent out these emails with, like, designs that I like, and sometimes it's, like really successful. Like, every, almost every design gets taken or like, you know, people want modified versions of all them or whatever. And that's like, great, like, Wow, I can't believe like, thank you. But like, sometimes I send them out and like not a single person replies and it's just like no one wanted and I spent all this bug effort like drawing these coloring, like doing pre colored designs, like all this stuff. And like cricket, or I'll get like an email being like these are great, but like not Yeah, and again, I'm tired too. Dude, I'm like, thinks

Frank Hannah: 55:02

you should try something crazy. You should send the same flash out like the next month and see what the responses negative these are. These are awesome. You're like, Okay, you focus on even look at the last email.

Leslie Young: 55:14

And like, it's funny because like the email blasts thing that I have, like shows me like, who opened them and like,

Frank Hannah: 55:21

Oh, so you just torture yourself at this point.

Leslie Young: 55:24

I'm like, Why do I even bother? Like, why is this part of the program? Like, why does it allow me to look at these things, but I really shouldn't even bother. And for the most part, like people do respond pretty positively to them. And I do hear a lot. And I'm thankful. Well, I

Frank Hannah: 55:39

think the thing that I think it's interesting about with that you do that is that, and maybe a lot of tattoo artists do it, but I don't have, you know, relationships of working relationships or anything with a whole bunch of tattoo artists, right. But you pretty prodigious, like you send out stuff, like all the time.

Leslie Young: 55:59

I mean, I try to I try to be consistent about it. And like, it's kind of funny, because I used to get really down when someone would like, cancel an appointment, or like reschedule. So I'm like, damn, like, I really was looking forward to doing this on like, I really wanted to, yeah, but then I spend that time drawing other new designs instead. And I think it really helps

Frank Hannah: 56:22

to separate yourself from the situation, right? Because there's a million reasons why someone isn't here. Probably number one is probably financial. Right? Yeah, it's a financial commitment to right, you get it done. When I was looking to have somebody who might tattoo and I would send, hey, this is what I'm looking at. And I would get this kind of forum. Email back. Yeah, that basically says, It's $300 an hour. Yeah. And it's six hours minimum. And it's $1,800. And I want like, X amount upfront, and I'm like, I don't even fucking know you. And you're like that. I'm sorry. Like, I'm sure you're great. You know, and they are like, you can see their work. It's not that they're bad. But you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. And so, yeah, did it burn me out of? Yes, it did. Because it's, it's not that it's not worth it. But like, if I have a tattoo that's a certain size, and they're saying it's a six hour minimum, but they're essentially saying is, I don't want to do any small tattoos, I want to do big pieces. Right. And I think that you get to a point where you can start demanding this type of thing, you know,

Leslie Young: 57:29

yeah, I think like, and they're right, if they want to do work that they don't want, there's like work that they don't want to do, they should be able to say no to those things.

Frank Hannah: 57:39

So, okay, so if you not so much like a young tattoo artist out there, but just in general terms of your creative process. Like what would you say to somebody that, you know, if somebody you met either came in here, or you met them somewhere, and they're there were up and coming artists, and they wanted to, they just didn't know if they had it in them or not, but you could kind of see that they're doing more than just doodling on a, like they have some skill there that could be developed? What's the advice you give to artists that to kind of push them over the top?

Leslie Young: 58:19

For what like they just in general,

Frank Hannah: 58:21

I mean, because not so much to say, to be a tattoo artist, which is its own thing, but yeah, I mean, do you not give people advice,

Leslie Young: 58:30

like much to say, because it really is your own, like, voice telling you what to do. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you personally are like, I really want to do this. And like everything about you inside of you is telling you Yeah, do this, that like you're gonna do it right? If you're feeling hesitant, because XYZ and the voice inside you is stronger than those hesitations. You're gonna end up doing it.

Frank Hannah: 59:03

Okay, last question. And I think I asked you this before, but I want to have it on tape. Oh, this, this fascination and love of Garfield, like, where did that come from?

Leslie Young: 59:15

Oh, okay. So this is funny because, okay, so as a kid, I went to the public library a lot. And we would do all like the reading programs for kids, like, you know, summer reading where you like, read all that. And then you get like, coupons to Rubio's? Like okay, candy, and like, I don't know, whatever. So we did all those programs. So it would go all the time. And I loved the library. It's like, the best thing ever. And they got they came to a point where I like got bored of reading because when you just read that much as a kid, you're like, I read the library. But there was a section for like comics and stuff and I found like booklets of like Garfield Comment collections and they'd be like, from this year to this year, so it was like a lot. And I would get all of them at the same time because no one ever checked them out. They were like just sitting there like untouched. And so I would get like, like six books of like Hormel or Garfield comics. And I would just read them all the time. And they were so I remember them actually. There were like a few that I liked that I would like bookmark and be like, Oh, I really like this one of Garfield calm. Yeah. But actually went back pretty recently to read some and they're really not that. Well, Jim Davis. Like Garfield's character is like really charismatic, I think because he's so sassy and like, violent towards someone who I used to feel bad for, but now I don't. Anyway. So I read those, like, aggressively for for a few years, actually, like, one one year maybe, like I would read them, return them get other stuff or the next week, get other stuff in the next week. And then like, go back and reread them. So it was like, I have this like weird bank of like Garfield knowledge.

Frank Hannah: 1:01:15

Listen, I've taken up enough of your time. I hope this wasn't too annoying. Right on time. And if somebody wants to come and schedule time with you, what's the best place to find you? Whether it's Instagram and or

Leslie Young: 1:01:32

your website? Look up? Yeah. Lesley young issm.com or Instagram. Lovely. And then my link like there's like a booking link in my bio.

Frank Hannah: 1:01:45

Yeah, so they can just find you there. Yeah, exactly. And she's very reasonable. She's very good. Thank you. And thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me. I appreciate it. Yeah, me too. Okay.